Why do opera singers sound out of tune?

Do disgruntled singers hear that they are absent?

It's all a bit of a stream of consciousness ... hope I'm not too far from the plot ;-)

People who sing out of tune rarely sing consequent disgruntled.

People who really can't sing also tend not to identify the correct pitches at all - more or less. They don't fight an inner mood, they just don't have one.

The ability to discern pitch, like most natural things, is a bell curve of population versus ability.
Very, very few people have no ability to recognize or reproduce pitch.
Most people can wear a tune even if they're just in a bucket ;).
Again, few people have the ability to absolutely commit to an unrelated pitch called the "perfect pitch".

I can sing. I know that I can sing.
I also know that I don't have a perfect pitch.
I have reasonable relative pitch, i.e. the ability to hold a melody once you've got the first note or a reference chord.
What I have after this reference is a very tight tolerance that I can stick to it - as long as the reference chords remain. At this point I am in my element ... constant external reference that I can hit with exactly one melody.

At this point I find anything out of tune painful to hear.

However, remove my reference and I will deviate from the original pitch at some point. I'm fine as long as I don't hear another hint. I can stay on pitch for an entire song as long as I know it well enough, but I can be thrown instantly if I hear a different melody or pitch reference of some sort that doesn't match what I currently remember reference .

Neural networks or even normal computers have a huge advantage over humans. You have "perfect pitch". You can learn to tell what a pitch is by counting the frequency of a sound wave and simply looking it up on a table.
People can't count that fast, nor do they have any kind of quartz watch reference to count against.

So a person has to recognize a pitch and then reproduce it through “natural talent”. Some can, some not to varying degrees.

Late editing:

edit of edit, although I'll leave the original criticism below ...
Further research has shown that this is unlikely to be an automatic vote. They just picked the chorus he did best and flown it in the entire length of the track - a pretty common practice since at least the '80s, though usually only for the big, difficult stuff like huge block BVs.
It's still painfully sharp.


This song bothered me for years and it still hurts every time I hear it.
Specific ref is the chorus first heard at 1:42, but I won't timestamp it in the link as you need to hear the whole thing in order to nail the root pitch into your head first.
The voice is generally quite voiceless, but the chorus [most of the 'bills' in fact] was automatically tuned ... by someone who was not as sensitive to the basic pitch of the song.
The result is that when you sing along, you have to purposely squeeze your voice about 5 cents sharply to hit every chorus that auto-tune put its voice on, rather than what you would sing if you did it on your own Inner would be left for reference.
It becomes even clearer in the later choruses when whoever is doing the BVs is actually closer to the pitch than the lead vox.

I know most people can't hear that - but it would be nice if someone ...

mm201

The Oasis thing sounds more like a comma pump to me. In a way, Gallagher is to accurate and modulates with an interval of only 6/5 to the relative major, giving it a comma that is sharp from the rest of the band.

Tetsujin

I'm pretty sure that the description "too accurate" does not apply to this voice.

Nathaniel

Wonderwall was released in 1995, a few years before Autotune was available.

Tetsujin

I got into this and racked my brains when I first had tuning technology. I was working for a musical instrument at the time and I saw so many things long before the public did. I also try to remember the source of my information that this album was "auto-tuned" (whether it was Antares or not). Will research and report more.

Tetsujin

OK, I need to revise (if not reduce) my complaints about Wonderwall. Autotune was invented in 95, so probably too late to be on this album. That changes my complaint to "You picked the chorus it came closest to and flown it into each chorus". That's why it's always out of tune.